Car gets tweaked Thur/Fri this week!

[Megaman]

Well the cars going in for some tweaks this week so hopefully by the weekend the car will be going like a rocket in time for my track day at silverstone on the 3rd december

[John Mc]

Demon Tweeks?

[John Mc]

[Megaman]

Yer something like that lol

[MaverickUK82]

You gonna update us then Mega'?

How did it go?

[Megaman]

Hiya,

The car is still in the garage due to various issues. I think there was a delay getting hold of some parts even though it was booked in to get these bits fit for a few weeks in advance....

Anyway to cut a long story short the garage is now doing their utmost to rectify the issue so I should be collecting car all being well Wednesday night and getting it mapped Thursday afternoon down in Milton Keynes in preparation for my Silverstone track day on Friday.

Just like to thank Duncan Graham (Race Dynamix) for squeezing the mapping in on Thursday given the amount the garage has messed him around already.

[WR 1mposter]

Hiya,

The car is still in the garage due to various issues. I think there was a delay getting hold of some parts even though it was booked in to get these bits fit for a few weeks in advance....

Anyway to cut a long story short the garage is now doing their utmost to rectify the issue so I should be collecting car all being well Wednesday night and getting it mapped Thursday afternoon down in Milton Keynes in preparation for my Silverstone track day on Friday.

Just like to thank Duncan Graham (Race Dynamix) for squeezing the mapping in on Thursday given the amount the garage has messed him around already.

Name an shame !

[rocko]

Nice one Mega ,, Glad to see that you have decided to tweak the wr1

Were did you decied to take her in the end ?

[Megaman]

Harvey from scoobynet up in Darlington is where the work is being done guys. A few people recommended him so thought id give him a go. Will see how it goes on Thursday when mapped to bring it all together.

[dynamix]

No worries Martin - see you thursday

no way I can let someone miss out on a track day

[asperformance]

unless it snows maybe...............

[dynamix]

unless it snows maybe...............

No proper snow down south Alyn - must admit it was hilarious up your way last week

[asperformance]

and you think anything has changed...........its the first day that we haven't had any fresh snowfall!!

[WR1 WOZA]

Well spill the beans Martin an d Duncan how did the tweaking go !

[Megaman]

Well after a few delays for various reasons that Harvey wasnt aware of until I went to collect the car, I managed to get the train up to Darlington and collect my car in the deep snow up there.

After collecting the car I then had to drive down to Milton Keynes to get it mapped by Duncan. The car had the following done by Harvey:

600 injectors
3" RCM exhaust
RCM Induction Kit
TD05 20G Turbo
Turbo Blanket
Headers
Exedy Clutch

Harvey said it should do an easy 400bhp with that spec and his special headers/uppipe combination although im sceptical and estimated 360-380.

On the way down to MK for the mapping session I had to keep the car off boost at 60mph all the way. The car would stall when ever idle as it was running very rich having had new injectors. Every time I changed gear there was a bang/crack/pop from the exhaust and the car did 88miles to the tank on the way down to MK. Had to fill up on the M1 and got charged 138p for vpower - was robbed!

Anyway once down in MK Duncan came and mapped the car and got it ticking over without stalling which was the first bonus. We then did various power runs and got the car pulling really well in 2nd/3rd/4th. However when in 5th or 6th the car would judder/surge quite a lot. Duncan needs to speak to Harvey about the spec and update the firmware of the ecu that he has mapped the car with so that he has wastegate control in the higher gears. Duncan will be able to expand on the technical side of things. So for now he backed the power off in the gears to limit the surge as much as possible. He will then generate a new map and come and see me again in a while and we can try and remap the car again with the updated firmware ecu. Hopefully then it will sort out the surge issues and get it pulling hard again.

One thing he noticed was that the gearbox neutral positioning sensor was on the way out so I might have get that changed before he next pops up.

First impressions of how the car has changed are that the car still has its burble on tickover but turns into a raw power blatt when under full power which i really like the sound of. The car isnt too loud or droney which is a bonus and was a worry when getting the exhaust. When driving under 3.3k rpm the car drives incredibly smoothly and freely and is really easy to drive. Before it felt like i was working the car to get the speed up around town where as now it feels to drive a lot easier and free-er if that makes sense.

The next thing I noticed when it had been mapped and I could boost it for the first time was that the noise the turbo/induction kit makes is completely different to standard. It sounds like the car is really sucking air into the engine when you boot it and the turbo spooling up and down is a lot louder now. It almost sounds like the car has a boy racer style dump valve fitted when you change gear which is cool.

Downsides - there is a smell of exhaust fumes that fills the car when idle at the lights. Some people have said this is normal and will go after a while so will have to see. Leg is also aching due to slightly heavier clutch. Other than that really impressed

[WR 1mposter]

IIRC a 20g turbo is fairly laggy more suited to a 2.5 !
Can't remember where I heard that from was a few years back, it may have improved !

Agreed with you on bhp around 380.


Had surge on ours before the turbo was changed, 60mph in 5/6th put your foot down and all you'd get was juddering

Why no fmic !
Why no ceramic headers, it is far cheaper in the long run ! Had ours wrapped after a while it would become loose and tatty, if you can't do it yourself it is another expense.

But smilie face on mega !

[Megaman]

IIRC a 20g turbo is fairly laggy more suited to a 2.5 !
Can't remember where I heard that from was a few years back, it may have improved !

Agreed with you on bhp around 380.


Had surge on ours before the turbo was changed, 60mph in 5/6th put your foot down and all you'd get was juddering

Why no fmic !
Why no ceramic headers, it is far cheaper in the long run ! Had ours wrapped after a while it would become loose and tatty, if you can't do it yourself it is another expense.

But smilie face on mega !

I was told lots of 2.0's had the 20G turbo and that it was ideally suited to it by a few places. Turbo was £850 vs the double the money for the md321h which was the other one i was considering. My thoughts were if i can get 3/4 the performance from a td05 20g for half the money thats good enough for me.

Was told FMIC not necessary at this power level and would only slow down responsiveness. Harvey does a hybrid fmic which is quite cheap but the one people recommend is APS and costs something in the region of 1500 + fitting which is silly money when the top one will do the job ok according to several places.

Exhaust headers were wrapped by harvey - several places such as RCM, CPA and Harvey all said ceramic coating is overkill and not needed on a road car. Wrapping was the best way to go for my needs according to the experts. Details of the headers from the invoice are:

GT2 Spec Tubular Headers
New 3 bolt special uppipe.
Wrapping.
Fitting.

Also noticed this:

Silicone inlet tract.
Fitting.

Not sure what this does but I suppose it was required. Any ideas?

Lastly about the juddering, it judders like a bitch in 5th and 6th when duncan gets the best out of gears 1-4 so no idea what is causing that. If there is a part i need to change to improve the flow hopefully someone will have some ideas. 6th gear seemed quite a lot worse than 5th when i was cruising home at motorway speeds and then gradually accelerated to creep past the car in front. Fingers crossed Duncan can dial it out with an updated ECU without pulling back the power too much. Otherwise I dont know what to suggest, maybe a better ECU would help him, who knows...

Still getting gassed at traffic lights by fumes, had a quick look on scoobynet and people say it should only last a couple of weeks or so or that there is a gap between the fittings somewhere. Will let the experts tell me whats best to resolve this if its still happening.

[Megaman]

Looking on andy forests website at his recommendations for power gains im on Level 3 / Level 4... I dont have a fuel pressure regulator but was told bigger injectors are a better way of achieving the same goal. I have the cold air induction kit so a bit of a mixture between those two levels.


Level 2 310-340 bhp

Full Decat turbo back 2.5 " or 3â€

[WR 1mposter]

I was told lots of 2.0's had the 20G turbo and that it was ideally suited to it by a few places. Turbo was £850 vs the double the money for the md321h which was the other one i was considering. My thoughts were if i can get 3/4 the performance from a td05 20g for half the money thats good enough for me.

Fair enough

Was told FMIC not necessary at this power level and would only slow down responsiveness. Harvey does a hybrid fmic which is quite cheap but the one people recommend is APS and costs something in the region of 1500 + fitting which is silly money when the top one will do the job ok according to several places.

At this level ! I was tmic incline but for more so safety reason fmic is far better, the later spooling would'nt be that noticeable if at all....according to RCM !

Exhaust headers were wrapped by harvey - several places such as RCM, CPA and Harvey all said ceramic coating is overkill and not needed on a road car. Wrapping was the best way to go for my needs according to the experts.

How much were the headers wrapped ? Over the next few year they will need rewrapping, did Havey paint then aswell, this helps prolong the life of the wrap !
Ceramic coated were around £650/700 from lateral which is probably where yours came from.

Details of the headers from the invoice are:

GT2 Spec Tubular Headers
New 3 bolt special uppipe.
Wrapping.
Fitting.

Also noticed this:

Silicone inlet tract.
Fitting.

Not sure what this does but I suppose it was required. Any ideas?

Nope

Lastly about the juddering, it judders like a bitch in 5th and 6th when duncan gets the best out of gears 1-4 so no idea what is causing that. If there is a part i need to change to improve the flow hopefully someone will have some ideas. 6th gear seemed quite a lot worse than 5th when i was cruising home at motorway speeds and then gradually accelerated to creep past the car in front. Fingers crossed Duncan can dial it out with an updated ECU without pulling back the power too much. Otherwise I dont know what to suggest, maybe a better ECU would help him, who knows...

Like I said earlier, change the standard turbo cured it, with standard ecu, why yours does this !

Still getting gassed at traffic lights by fumes, had a quick look on scoobynet and people say it should only last a couple of weeks or so or that there is a gap between the fittings somewhere. Will let the experts tell me whats best to resolve this if its still happening.

I do have a some breathing apperatus, or open all windows

[Megaman]

I was told lots of 2.0's had the 20G turbo and that it was ideally suited to it by a few places. Turbo was £850 vs the double the money for the md321h which was the other one i was considering. My thoughts were if i can get 3/4 the performance from a td05 20g for half the money thats good enough for me.

Fair enough

Was told FMIC not necessary at this power level and would only slow down responsiveness. Harvey does a hybrid fmic which is quite cheap but the one people recommend is APS and costs something in the region of 1500 + fitting which is silly money when the top one will do the job ok according to several places.

At this level ! I was tmic incline but for more so safety reason fmic is far better, the later spooling would'nt be that noticeable if at all....according to RCM !

Exhaust headers were wrapped by harvey - several places such as RCM, CPA and Harvey all said ceramic coating is overkill and not needed on a road car. Wrapping was the best way to go for my needs according to the experts.

How much were the headers wrapped ? Over the next few year they will need rewrapping, did Havey paint then aswell, this helps prolong the life of the wrap !
Ceramic coated were around £650/700 from lateral which is probably where yours came from.

Details of the headers from the invoice are:

GT2 Spec Tubular Headers
New 3 bolt special uppipe.
Wrapping.
Fitting.

Also noticed this:

Silicone inlet tract.
Fitting.

Not sure what this does but I suppose it was required. Any ideas?

Nope

Lastly about the juddering, it judders like a bitch in 5th and 6th when duncan gets the best out of gears 1-4 so no idea what is causing that. If there is a part i need to change to improve the flow hopefully someone will have some ideas. 6th gear seemed quite a lot worse than 5th when i was cruising home at motorway speeds and then gradually accelerated to creep past the car in front. Fingers crossed Duncan can dial it out with an updated ECU without pulling back the power too much. Otherwise I dont know what to suggest, maybe a better ECU would help him, who knows...

Like I said earlier, change the standard turbo cured it, with standard ecu, why yours does this !

Still getting gassed at traffic lights by fumes, had a quick look on scoobynet and people say it should only last a couple of weeks or so or that there is a gap between the fittings somewhere. Will let the experts tell me whats best to resolve this if its still happening.

I do have a some breathing apperatus, or open all windows

Headers were:

GT2 Spec Tubular Headers £415
New 3 bolt special uppipe. £149
Wrapping. £100
Fitting. £75


FMIC - again its a tough one as they cost a bomb for no real gain at this power level according to several people. When you say its safer, do you mean safer for the engine components in some way?

Still no idea why its happening... hopefully a mechanical genius will help fix the issue.

[WR 1mposter]

Headers were:

GT2 Spec Tubular Headers £415
New 3 bolt special uppipe. £149
Wrapping. £100
Fitting. £75

I suspect he may have given 10% off these prices aswell

http://lateralperformance.co.uk/product ... 735afa147c

FMIC - again its a tough one as they cost a bomb for no real gain at this power level according to several people. When you say its safer, do you mean safer for the engine components in some way?

Marky Mark his the guy to speak too for more techyness, but it's something to do with keeping inlet temperature down, MM change my mind to go for a tmic, plus I went from 375bhp to 410bhp

Still no idea why its happening... hopefully a mechanical genius will help fix the issue.

IIRC we had fumes too, dont forgewt you will also have the wrap burning smell for a while

[dynamix]

A FMIC would definitely net you more power for your application Martin - they will always do this if it is a decent fmic but sometimes the expense is not deemed worth it.

On your car I would expect a 15-20bhp difference between FMIC & TMIC with no noticeable lag increase.

[Megaman]

Headers were:

GT2 Spec Tubular Headers £415
New 3 bolt special uppipe. £149
Wrapping. £100
Fitting. £75

I suspect he may have given 10% off these prices aswell

No idea, I was told Lateral / RCM / Harvey all use the same parts and brand them as their own so it doesnt really matter where you get them from. Harvey i was told was the best for the headers and uppipes so went with him. Is harvey a lot cheaper than lateral then?

FMIC - again its a tough one as they cost a bomb for no real gain at this power level according to several people. When you say its safer, do you mean safer for the engine components in some way?

Marky Mark his the guy to speak too for more techyness, but it's something to do with keeping inlet temperature down, MM change my mind to go for a tmic, plus I went from 375bhp to 410bhp

No one told me there would be a power gain going for FMIC over TMIC!!
Grr, people kept referring me to Andy Forests website which said TMIC is fine and not restrictive unless you go 450bhp or higher. Can certainly consider one if it will help. Anyone any experience of decent affordable ones? Cant see why Harveys Hybrid FMIC is so cheap for a few hundred pounds compared to something like the APS FMIC...

Still no idea why its happening... hopefully a mechanical genius will help fix the issue.

IIRC we had fumes too, dont forgewt you will also have the wrap burning smell for a while

Ah thats okay then - yer someone else mentioned the wrap might smell for a while so might be a mixture of the two. No one told me to expect it though!!

[Megaman]

A FMIC would definitely net you more power for your application Martin - they will always do this if it is a decent fmic but sometimes the expense is not deemed worth it.

On your car I would expect a 15-20bhp difference between FMIC & TMIC with no noticeable lag increase.

Im sure one of the lads at RCM told me it probably wouldnt give any power gains under 400BHP... if one at a few hundred pounds does the job as well as the several thousand pound ones then im willing to look at them if you think it will help. Do you think it will help with the surging/fluttering?

[WR 1mposter]

No one told me there would be a power gain going for FMIC over TMIC!!
Grr, people kept referring me to Andy Forests website which said TMIC is fine and not restrictive unless you go 450bhp or higher. Can certainly consider one if it will help. Anyone any experience of decent affordable ones? Cant see why Harveys Hybrid FMIC is so cheap for a few hundred pounds compared to something like the APS FMIC...

APS or Hyperflow monster are the one to go for, there was a aps for sale on 22bforum.

Everyday road i'm sure tmic will be fine, but a lot of track days go for a fmic,

I had no other mods done when our fmic was fitted went from 375 to 410, but I will say it did'nt drive aswell, especially in cold weather which possibly was maf related on aps ind kit. So as you know went for a area52 top spec wheelbarrow build infact a wheelbarrow had better build quality, with a simtek ecu to do a way with the maf......so when ours come back in the next few weeks should be able to compare how it drives in the cold which will be same spec as the original 410bhp build but with simtek.

[rocko]

""area52 top spec wheelbarrow build infact a wheelbarrow had better build quality""

Brilliant

[Azyman]

Hi mega i got that fuel smell as well,

when its all setup by duncan you will be over the moon

the RCM 3" is loud though but not as loud as Woza`s motor

[WR1 WOZA]

Hey Geoff
Hows ur motor going and happy Xmas to u !

[dynamix]

A FMIC would definitely net you more power for your application Martin - they will always do this if it is a decent fmic but sometimes the expense is not deemed worth it.

On your car I would expect a 15-20bhp difference between FMIC & TMIC with no noticeable lag increase.

Im sure one of the lads at RCM told me it probably wouldnt give any power gains under 400BHP... if one at a few hundred pounds does the job as well as the several thousand pound ones then im willing to look at them if you think it will help. Do you think it will help with the surging/fluttering?

I dont think it will help the surge - I need to spend a little more time on the map and sort that for you. It is solveable within the map.

The better fmic's tend to fit better and have all the right bits, better pipework and look the business. Below 400bhp you wont notice between a hybrid and an APS fmic apart from the ease of fitting and quality of components. (but both will out perform a tmic)

[Megaman]

APS or Hyperflow monster are the one to go for, there was a aps for sale on 22bforum.

Everyday road i'm sure tmic will be fine, but a lot of track days go for a fmic,

I had no other mods done when our fmic was fitted went from 375 to 410, but I will say it did'nt drive aswell, especially in cold weather which possibly was maf related on aps ind kit. So as you know went for a area52 top spec wheelbarrow build infact a wheelbarrow had better build quality, with a simtek ecu to do a way with the maf......so when ours come back in the next few weeks should be able to compare how it drives in the cold which will be same spec as the original 410bhp build but with simtek.

I also think that the APS would be the best but im struggling to see why its nearly tripple the Hybrid price.

With regards to your power increase from changing from tmic to fmic, are you sure area 52 didnt just tighten up some loose jubilee clips and get the original car working more like it should?