FMIC?

[GARETH BALDWIN]

i am going to get a front mount for the wr1, there is no shortage of these at nearly a grand, but i have also seen a lot advertised at a more friendly £350, what should i do? go budget or spend big? is there much difference in cooling performance? does anyone know? thanks.

[JP]

Is there a particular reason why you are getting a FMIC? You upgrading?

I only ask since you do not want to waste money if you can get away with your top mount IC. Also you need to bear in mind cheap isn't necessarily the best - you have a WR1, so if you're getting one, then get a decent one.

Below should give you some background of an IC, though someone like Marky Mark is the ideal person to get some wizadry thoughts and recommendations from.

http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/afterm ... cooler.php

[danr55]

What else are you doing with the car? TMIC is absolutely fine to at least 360 BHP

[GARETH BALDWIN]

i am having new turbo, new injectors, decat 3", panel air filter, and of course fmic. (wallace performance). i am wanting to get near 400 bhp. the reason for the fmic now, is cause some idiot hit mt wr1 in the osf wing and drove off, the damage isnt ultra bad but will need paint. i am having the bumper and bonnet resprayed due to stone chips and might aswell have the fmic done at the same time. i did notice an intercooler which has been made for this shape of impreza which they say requires minimal structural adjustment. and it was only £400.

[GARETH BALDWIN]

the fmic is from "www.aztecperformance.co.uk" it is for GDB, and priced at £349. is this good??

[JP]

i am having new turbo, new injectors, decat 3", panel air filter, and of course fmic. (wallace performance). i am wanting to get near 400 bhp. the reason for the fmic now, is cause some idiot hit mt wr1 in the osf wing and drove off, the damage isnt ultra bad but will need paint. i am having the bumper and bonnet resprayed due to stone chips and might aswell have the fmic done at the same time. i did notice an intercooler which has been made for this shape of impreza which they say requires minimal structural adjustment. and it was only £400.

* Panel Filter for 400 BHP? Should they not be looking at an induction kit? Breathing is really important when you are running near 400 bhp.

* New Turbo - what turbo are you having put in?

* Exhaust Headers? You did not mention this??

Have you been to see any other tuning firms such as RCM to see what their opinions are?

We have had a couple of people in the past two weeks looking to get 400 bhp, and you will find that most of the guys on here who have had their cars modded (incl. mine) would advise you to look around.

Incidently, what are Wallace Performace charging you to get to near 400bhp? Have they mentioned torque figs at all?

Dan55r is correct about getting away with a Top Mount IC up to 360 speaking from personal experience.



JP

[wr1.305]

ive just had apc sr40 turbo, power enterprise 660cc injectors, full rcm 3" exhaust fitted, and apc CAIK fitted, ive decided to run with the TMIC and see how she gose, as im looking aswell at spending 1000quid on a FMIC, coolong is important but ive been advised to take the bottom engine cover off, and fit boost gauges, to moniter temps. i think realistically i will be running 380bhp, but the problem i have is if i fit a FMIC it will give me a few more ponys so then will have to look at strengthening the bloke and internal parts. bear this in mind it will only take so much before it gose "pop" although ive been told the 2.0 lump is very strong..

[JP]

ive just had apc sr40 turbo, power enterprise 660cc injectors, full rcm 3" exhaust fitted, and apc CAIK fitted, ive decided to run with the TMIC and see how she gose, as im looking aswell at spending 1000quid on a FMIC, coolong is important but ive been advised to take the bottom engine cover off, and fit boost gauges, to moniter temps. i think realistically i will be running 380bhp, but the problem i have is if i fit a FMIC it will give me a few more ponys so then will have to look at strengthening the bloke and internal parts. bear this in mind it will only take so much before it gose "pop" although ive been told the 2.0 lump is very strong..

Not necessarily true! This all depends on what boost and torque you are running and how much more "ponies" you want and how much you thrash it at those levels you are running it at! I am sure there are cars out there running more than 400 with standard internals. I would have thought you would be better off with a FMIC if you are running a bona fide 380 bhp car.

Although, I'm sure the FMIC alone will not take you from 380 to 400 and require you to change your internals!

[jd]

there are quite a large number of scoobs now running over 400bhp on the standard internals, alot has to do with the boost levels and mapping as to how long it will last.

[GARETH BALDWIN]

wow, so many different opinions! the thing is that i totally trust wallace performance to do a good job and will spend around 4k with them, i am told that the standard air box with free flow panel filter is good for 400bhp, torque is high on the priority, russell at wallace is a whiz kid with this stuff and he will not do anything which will make my car unsafe. the thing is i am not sure about is spending 1k on fmic, surely a cheaper fmic is better than the top mount???? the one at aztec looks like a good deal, like i said before, if i am having body work done so i might aswell have the front mount at the same time! cheers for any help!

[marky mark]

The o.e airbox will do 400, but you may liberate a bit more at this level with an induction kit as the airbox will be strangling it a bit.

For example if you put an induction kit on at say 320 bhp you will gain a tiny amount if anything at all. This is because the o.e airbox can flow more than enough at 320 bhp. Put one on at 400 BHP and you might suddenly have a 10-15 BHP gain, if you see what i mean.

It's exactly the same with a FMIC. The o.e TMIC can do 400 but it will be holding it back a bit. Put a FMIC on and you will notice a big difference in peak BHP, although you can loose a bit of driveability especially with the cheap intercoolers.

As for cooling performance, the cheapo intercoolers like the hybrids are more than man enough for well over 400, the quality of fitment and of the pipe work etc. is nowhere near that of an APS or hyperflow though. They are cheap for a reason.

What turbo are you going for, it would be easier to make proper recommendations on all the supporting stuff if you could give us the turbo you are putting on it.

[GARETH BALDWIN]

cheers marky! i will find out which turbo is to be used, all i know is its £720, i am just doing one thing at a time, i was just after a rough figure for the upgrades, by the time i come to do the turbo etc, i will have researched the options. i was considering changing the car for something quicker, but i love it so much i am just going to improve the power. what do you think of nos, wallace reacon if fitted right it wont cause any problems at all! cheers buddy!!!

[marky mark]

I don't really get the point of having nitrous oxide on a road car myself, particularly on an engine (assuming you are not having it rebuilt with new pistons and rods) that will be quite highly stressed anyway.

I'm sure it can be done safely, but you are only going to have a relatively small shot i think? I don't really know enough about it to comment with any kind of authority.


JP, can you cut out this kind of stuff if you don't mind as you keep mentioning me!

though someone like Marky Mark

It makes you sound a bit sad, i'm not particularly comfortable with it, and it makes no odds on wether i reply to any post/question. If i can help then i will, if i can't then i won't.
If it helps you to get over it, i can send you some unwashed boxer shorts of mine.

[GARETH BALDWIN]

nos is something i was just thinking about, i like the idea that it adds so much bhp at the push of a button, i would love to go in a car which has it to see what its like. but you are right about having it in a road car, it would be a good way of scoring points of which i have 8!! by the way it was to be a shot of 50 bhp, which is relatively small and will not make much difference anyway at 390-400 bhp. i was thinking about leaving the engine standard, apart from fmic and some sort of air filter and just adding the nos for an occasional blast!?!

[dynamix]

nos is something i was just thinking about, i like the idea that it adds so much bhp at the push of a button, i would love to go in a car which has it to see what its like. but you are right about having it in a road car, it would be a good way of scoring points of which i have 8!! by the way it was to be a shot of 50 bhp, which is relatively small and will not make much difference anyway at 390-400 bhp. i was thinking about leaving the engine standard, apart from fmic and some sort of air filter and just adding the nos for an occasional blast!?!

Power at the press of a button ... hmmm I have one of those - it's called an accelerator pedal

Forget NOS, the rise in cylinder pressure is huge and on a std engine it will kill it very quickly.

Get the foundations correct and do the job properly IMO

[marky mark]

as Dynamix said, you will already be sailing close to the wind on a standard engine, even used in short bursts i don't really think you will last long. Unless of course you are going for a really small shot, but then whats the point?

Drag racing only with a forged engine IMHO.

[Megaman]

talking of costs... i still cant believe it cost me 2.5k to get a focus upgraded from 220 to 330bhp and its gonna cost 6.5k to upgrade a wr1 from 316 to 400bhp... craziness... (and thats with the cheapest quote!!)

People said to me if you use it for trackdays then get a FMIC... if you just drive on the roads dont bother up to 450bhp with the wr1...

[danr55]

talking of costs... i still cant believe it cost me 2.5k to get a focus upgraded from 220 to 330bhp and its gonna cost 6.5k to upgrade a wr1 from 316 to 400bhp... craziness... (and thats with the cheapest quote!!)

People said to me if you use it for trackdays then get a FMIC... if you just drive on the roads dont bother up to 450bhp with the wr1...

not sure the STi TMIC would be any use for 400+ on a 2 litre?

[wr1.305]

http://www.zenperformance.co.uk/p/produ ... ncillaries

12th down mate on the right, £895 i think (cant remember it was atleast two mins ago i looked) its also up for sale on scoobyclinic. i dont think your get cheaper or better.

[Clark]

Have you had work done at Wallace Performance before Gareth?

I know most people say good things about them and apparantly they are improving but i've still heard a few varying stories from a few of our customers...

I'm in no way slating them etc but i'm just curious really?

If it were my car I'd be putting it to Andy F or RCM I rekon (although i'm really trying to keep mine standard and so far succeeding! )

[Azyman]

Hi Gareth

the best advice i can give is make sure you ask about try different companys

get a couple of quotes ask all the questions u can think of also ask the mian question well what i think it is to me riliabilty and ongoing cost after the work is done

Good luck!

[GARETH BALDWIN]

cheers gents, i think i will take my time over this. might leave the top mount on for now and go for the bigger turbo, the car suffers from turbo surge?!!? it makes a fluttering sound. although wallace have reduced this with a remap the car is now running 323 bhp and 296 torqes. this should not happen at this power so not sure if the turbo is ok anyway. russell at wallace is on holiday so i will find out from him what parts he is planning for me and see what you dudes think? cheers. ps dan i noticed that you have seen other wr1's in marlow near a404? small world as i come from near there (high hellhole...sorry, high wycombe) do you use sgt?

[danr55]

cheers gents, i think i will take my time over this. might leave the top mount on for now and go for the bigger turbo, the car suffers from turbo surge?!!? it makes a fluttering sound. although wallace have reduced this with a remap the car is now running 323 bhp and 296 torqes. this should not happen at this power so not sure if the turbo is ok anyway. russell at wallace is on holiday so i will find out from him what parts he is planning for me and see what you dudes think? cheers. ps dan i noticed that you have seen other wr1's in marlow near a404? small world as i come from near there (high hellhole...sorry, high wycombe) do you use sgt?

strange you are getting surge with that setup Not sure why this would be, hopefully someone can give you some further ideas. Yes, I'm indeed not far from High Wycombe! SGT? Don't get me started on SGT!

[wr1.305]

whats surge and what causes it?

[GARETH BALDWIN]

i think its is where the turbo is not man enough to force the compresion it produces into the engine and it backs up, i am told the car can shudder if its really bad and this is somthing which will kill the turbo! mine used to make quite a loud fluttering noise especially on cold days, but it doesnt seem so bad now that its been sorted by wallace...new turbo on the way!!

[danr55]

....normally if you put your put down with the revs too low and the turbo cant handle it, if it's surge you can drive around it by keeping higher revs or by accelerating more gently until you get out of lower revs.... and it does make some fluttering noises. Still cant understand why you'd be getting this on a standard turbo though. What dump valve are you using?

[GARETH BALDWIN]

turbosmart bov, bolted to the intercooler, it was on it when i got the car.

[WR1 Bro]

I've had DVs that have caused a "fluttering" noise. Never turbo surge from what I understand. I also had a problem with my turbo at some point as a "part" was sticking causing it to chatter. Sorry I can't give more info.

[danr55]

turbosmart bov, bolted to the intercooler, it was on it when i got the car.

take it off, and refit a recirc, standard one will do, and see if that fixes the problem