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My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby marky-b » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:26 am

Happy New Year all,

Just though I would share my on going saga of my second car. It's a long one.

I decided to buy a second car last October, to go to the tip, take the dog's out in and more importantly, park up my 1 during the bad weather.
Decided on a people carrier, space of a van but with more comfort. Couldn't decide on anything particular, just keep looking for anything that took my fancy. After hours on Gumtree, Auto trader and ebay, spotted a Citroen C8. :shake:
Not far from home, so I went to have a look. It's a 2.2 hdi exclusive, so good solid engine and all the bells and whistles, cruise, 3 electric sun roof's, electric side doors, 6 seater, leather, auto lights, wipers dimming mirror, you get the picture. The car had no MOT but drove ok, sounded like 1 of the front ARB drop links had gone, tyre etc were all good. The only issue was a warning saying the oil additive low. I had done a bit of homework and know this related to the DPF. A lot of the French cars use an oil additive in the DPF system and it needs refilling around 50K miles. I wasn't too bothered about it, so after some haggling, I parted with £1500 and had bought myself a C8. On the drive home, the MIL came on, Anti-pollution fault was displayed and the went into restricted performance. I put it down to low DPF oil.
Now the fun begins,
Got the car on a ramp and replaced both front lower suspension arms, both front ARB links, 1 rear brake caliper, both front wiper blades (£40!!!!) and serviced it.
Booked it into my local Citroen dealer to have the oil refilled and the counter reset. I was quoted £200 for this. They also found that the fuel filler sensor was faulty, another £120 fitted. Collected the car, when the car was driven to the MOT station, the the MIL came on, Anti-pollution fault was displayed and the went into restricted performance again. Recycled the ignition and the light etc went out.Got the car MOT's and taxed, then returned the car to Citroen for them to have a look at again. They said something about the fuel filler sensor not connected properly, done that, cleared the fault. I was advised to fill up with diesel and go for a drive up the motorway, to regen the DPF. Done this. everything ok. Happy again.
Next morning, on the way in to work, the light came on yet again, not happy. Spoke to Citroen, who said they would have another look. They gave me a list of faults, that included a couple of short circuits in the DPF oil system. Having lost faith and not wanting to pay the dealer prices, I took the car to a local independent specialist. (There is very little info on the net regarding the system). They confirmed that there was some electrical issues with the dpf system, so having no choice, I told them to go ahead and do the £560 of work. Picked the car up from them, didn't take long before the light came on again, getting very fed up now. So, back to them, they looked again and said there was a new fault, turbo boost pressure switch, £60, after £560, whats another £60. Fitted that, made it maybe 8 miles and the light came on again. Back to the garage, the guy asked if I could leave the car with them for a few days and they would try and sort it, check the vac system etc. So I made plans to leave it with them for a week. Just before I took it back, we had a look for any split pipes etc ourselves. I have never seen such a complicated breather/DPF system in my life. For a 10 year old car, it looks a nightmare waiting to happen. Couldn't find anything, so dropped the car off and left it with them for about 6 days. Spoke to the garage, they thought it was a vac solenoid, £50. Go for it. When I collected the car, i said if it hadn't fixed it this time, I wouldn't be back. fed up with throwing money at it. Lasted 4 miles this time.
So, after driving and trying to monitor when the light came on, I have found the conditions for it to happen. Road speed or gear doesn't effect it but engine speed does. At somewhere around a constant 1800/1900 rpm for a few seconds, causes the light to come on. You can drive through the revs or over run back down with no effect and as long as you drive around that rpm it's fine. Me and the wife went to York for a long weekend before Christmas, done 600 miles and only had the light come on 3 times. I have bought a cheap OBD code reader, does see any codes but will clear them. Only takes a few seconds but you have to turn off the engine and just have the ignition on, engine not running. I have had to change my driving technique to suit, but it works. It will sit on the motorway at 70 all day and do around 40 mpg (2500 rpm ish)
So, the moral of the story is, don't buy French, Don't buy a car with a DPF.
I will run round in it for a few months, to try and get some use out of it. Reckon I will look at something like a Mondeo estate TDCI next time.
We hope to move house later this year, (some where in Lincolnshire, but that's another long and complicated story) so the 1 might have to find a new home if it happens. :(
Hope I haven't bored you all too much, :wink:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:18 am

There is a big push towards removing DPF filters / recirculation valves now , have you considered trying that?

My old mondeo st tdci still had DPF and if it only did short trips would need the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) part replacing fairly regularly. The in laws have a golf 2.0L TDI again DPF changes every 6 months as its used to do a school run of about 3miles and always bungs up.

Morale of the story, Diesel cars are crap for short trips where the engine doesn't get warm and need a long drive to clear the soot out of the system fairly frequently. Otherwise they are worse economy than petrols, and cost more to run with DPF's every so often.

I dont understand peoples obsessions with buying diesels unless doing over about 12k a year or motorway miles. Diesel costs more than unleaded to fill up. Takes a lot longer than a petrol car to warm up. A Diesel car costs you more to buy than a petrol equivalent in the first place. Most of the time diesels are more to insure due to being more powerful and having more torque. MPG on a diesel is bad until it gets up to temperature on a decent run.

Our mondeo ST TDCI did around 47mpg on the motorway which is great. When I used it in stop start rush hour to go 16miles in 45mins it came back at 26mpg! The car would be just about warm after around 35mins and the last 3 miles of the trip, the mpg would start to rise. I tried the in laws golf and that was the same, that does over 50mpg on the motorways but stop start rush hour 29mpg.

I had a good look around at diesels when choosing my daily driver and ended up getting my renault megane sport 2.0L Turbo, cost me 5.5k, 0-62 in 6secs, rush hour traffic it does 26-28mpg - same as a diesel or 33mpg on the motorway. Cost the same to insure as the other diesels i was looking at. Costs less to run given unleaded is a lot cheaper than diesel and vpower. Doesnt have the DPF issue, its main bad point is its French - 'nuff said :) and it has the odd electric issue - ive had it over a year and changed three bulbs and a window switch. But you get these glitches with most older cars so all in all it works out on paper better for me to get something still fun to drive but petrol compared to a diesel much to the wifes disgust :lol:. If I start doing motorway journeys regularly then i will change my car to something more appropriate but for the odd long journey with day to day short trips this seems the best option.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby DCFCtom » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:07 pm

I dont have a lot to add but that sounds like an absolute bloody nightmare. I was thinking along the same lines but just a cheap runabout like a KA or something but i just cant justify the extra petrol and tax unfortunatly so the 1 will be used throughout the winter months.

Tbh i think id have found some dealer who you could have part exed it with rather than throw that amount of cash at it. Let them deal with it lol :oops:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby marky-b » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:13 pm

Hi guys,

Didn't realise that the mondeo was dpf, I was thinking of maybe a 2003ish. Not sure I would have another DPF car.
I did look into having the C8 dpf removed, both physicaly and electronicaly but because the fault wasn't linked directly to the DPF, they couldn't be sure that it would sort the problem. I'm not sure but at the rpm the fault occurs, it might be just right for the turbo to come on boost?. Someone suggested the egr, do the usual fix and blank it off, but it looks a nightmare to get to (if I could see it, that is). Looks like I will just have to live with it for the moment, don't want to spend any more cash on it.
I agree, if you don't do the miles, stick to a petrol. The modern petrols are very good on fuel and a lot less of a problem. I will have to do the sums and see what is best.

I did think about part exing it, but after I'd started to spend on it, I thought that the problem would be solved. Might try and part ex it later in the year. Just hope it lasts that long :cry:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby WR 1mposter » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:41 am

Pretty sure all diesels upto 9 years old(2003) have dpf/egr

Our X-type (arthur :lol: ) never had a issue in 6 years and 60ks.

But my Fiat Ducato van which has basically same engine was always playing up, so got a bar about 400mm long placed it on erg valve
and hit it with a fooking hammer a few times, has been trouble free for last 2 years :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:50 am

If I remember correctly the *done thing* with the mondeo st tdci was to blank off egr valve, buy a decat pipe - one place made them specially for it. Then remap it with a bluefin unit. Makes the car over 200 bhp and loads of torque. I remapped mine but didnt do the egr thing or decat as it was the wifes car. In case you didnt know blanking off the egr can make the car smokey, you know those cars that boot it and get a whole lot of black smoke out of the back? Thats probably had the same treatment lol.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Gary75 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:19 pm

I've used a blanking plate on my Ford Transit. The inlet manifold was removed once a year to clean out the Black Death within, the Black Death didn't seem to cause any running issues. I haven't noticed any smoking issues with the plate fitted? The only benefit is a clean inlet manifold and less maintenance.

Fitted one to an Sri 150, cured lumpy idle, no more sticking egr valve, no more EML.

I wonder if the egr on 1 can be blanked off? This would stop the Black Death entering the inlet tracts and blocking the intricate pipe work :idea:

These DPF's are all well and good for reducing emissions, in turn reducing road fund licence to say £30 a year? But when they go wrong or need replacing, the cost to replace outways that cheap car tax in the first place :? Unless you sell the car before the bloody thing packs up :shock:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby marky-b » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:01 am

Might try blanking off the egr when I get chance. It's now developed a rattle from the back end when you go over pot holes and bumps in the road. Will try and have a look later, might just be something silly like the spare wheel carrier. :suss:

Vive la France
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby hightower » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:18 am

On the mondeo ST TDCI pre 2007 models have a vaccum EGR so you can blank it off and it should not bring in the EML (some folk drill a small hole in the blank as to keep the unit functioning but not recirculating all the gasses). I had a 2007 model and it had a blank fitted but it it an electronic EGR so it brought in the engine management light you could clear it but 20 min later it brought it back in. I just lived with it like that as the MPG drops with a EGR and so does power. MOT time I just removed the blank and cleared the light and it passed no bother.
We think it was between 4 and 5 mpg lost with the EGR valve online.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Gary75 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:53 am

My Sri 150 had an electronic egr. The egr was removed from the vehicle, a component called an egr cheater was plugged into the egr electrical socket. The egr cheater fooled the ecu into thinking the egr valve was still functioning electronically hence no EML light. The cheater was only available for the z22se engine at the time, two versions were available, wire into existing loom or plug into existing egr electrical socket, the later being the most convenient option...

Do we have any electrical wiz kids on here that could design one for the 1?

http://www.z22se.co.uk/forum/threads/fi ... ater.5891/
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby marky-b » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:43 pm

Managed to get my car on the ramp at tea break this morning. Spare wheel not loose, can't see what would be causing the noise. Somebody suggested a rear ARB drop link but when I looked, it doesn't have a rear ARB :roll:
So, still not sure whats rattling. Decided to wait until,
1, it fixes itself (unlikely)
2, something falls off and lets me know what needs fixing (most likley)

Had a bit of a nose round some of the forums, modeo, c max etc. Seems like they have quite a lot of issues with the diesels. I know that most forums only portray the bad side of a car, unless it's an specialist furum, like subaru's, RS etc. Quite fancy something a bit different, maybe a Honda HR-V. Going to edge towards Japanese, what ever I get.

Cheers for your input so far. :)
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby marky-b » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:19 pm

Hi all,

A few days ago, the noise got a lot worse. Took the RHR wheel off and the brake disc shield fell off :wtf:

I could see that it had it had been cracked for a while. The crack was rusty, anyway, it's very quiet now, so very pleased.

All sorted.

:woohoo:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby John Mc » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:32 pm

General comments (aimed at all mongs):

"DPF cars" just need to be driven at 2.5-3.5k revs to "recharge" them for 4-5mins. No problems. If peoples' DPF's are getting f*cked up then I'd suggest you learn how to drive a diesel because you must be a retaded c*nt.

As for people getting less than 45mpg out of diesels, I'd suggest that you learn how to drive a diesel. I get 45-50mpg out of mine, pretty much in start-stop traffic every day I'm doing over 100 miles on shite A and B roads.

Hope this helps.

Mongs.
[Just incase this gets lost in translation, I am not slandering you, I know people can be sensitive to these harsh words.]
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:21 pm

John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:General comments (aimed at all mongs):

"DPF cars" just need to be driven at 2.5-3.5k revs to "recharge" them for 4-5mins. No problems. If peoples' DPF's are getting f*cked up then I'd suggest you learn how to drive a diesel because you must be a retaded c*nt.

As for people getting less than 45mpg out of diesels, I'd suggest that you learn how to drive a diesel. I get 45-50mpg out of mine, pretty much in start-stop traffic every day I'm doing over 100 miles on shite A and B roads.

Hope this helps.

Mongs.


:tosser:

They need to be thrashed and got very hot to burn off the sooty crap now and again. The ones that get clogged up are the ones that dont get warm that do a few miles a day like on school runs or short trips. Typical scouse reply :lol:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby John Mc » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:31 pm

If you are only doing a few miles then you have to ask yourself why you aren't walking, running or taking a bike instead.

Fat lazy cunts.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Gary75 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:17 pm

John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:General comments (aimed at all mongs):

"DPF cars" just need to be driven at 2.5-3.5k revs to "recharge" them for 4-5mins. No problems. If peoples' DPF's are getting f*cked up then I'd suggest you learn how to drive a diesel because you must be a retaded c*nt.

As for people getting less than 45mpg out of diesels, I'd suggest that you learn how to drive a diesel. I get 45-50mpg out of mine, pretty much in start-stop traffic every day I'm doing over 100 miles on shite A and B roads.

Hope this helps.

Mongs.


Do Mongols drive diesel cars :freak:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:17 am

John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:If you are only doing a few miles then you have to ask yourself why you aren't walking, running or taking a bike instead.

Fat lazy cunts.


Maybe you have 3 kids to take to different local schools 3 miles apart and have to get all 3 kids to their schools between 8:30am and 9:00am. :nono:

Clearly John hasnt ever had to do the School Run :lol:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby asperformance » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:26 am

"As for people getting less than 45mpg out of diesels, I'd suggest that you learn how to drive a diesel. I get 45-50mpg out of mine, pretty much in start-stop traffic every day I'm doing over 100 miles on shite A and B roads"

if you can get that out of a T5 Transporter 5cylinder i would be very impressed................. :wave:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby John Mc » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:30 am

Megaman wrote:
John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:If you are only doing a few miles then you have to ask yourself why you aren't walking, running or taking a bike instead.

Fat lazy cunts.


Maybe you have 3 kids to take to different local schools 3 miles apart and have to get all 3 kids to their schools between 8:30am and 9:00am. :nono:

Clearly John hasnt ever had to do the School Run :lol:


Clearly you are too fuckin lazy to haul your fat arse out of bed and plan your day better.

Anything is possible, you just need to plan it and organise yourself.

Anyway, you don't have 3 kids at school... You need to grow a pair of bollocks and tell whosever kids they are that they need to sort their own kids out.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby John Mc » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:34 am

asperformance wrote:"As for people getting less than 45mpg out of diesels, I'd suggest that you learn how to drive a diesel. I get 45-50mpg out of mine, pretty much in start-stop traffic every day I'm doing over 100 miles on shite A and B roads"

if you can get that out of a T5 Transporter 5cylinder i would be very impressed................. :wave:


That's a van isn't it? I know I said diesels but I should have clarified I was referring to cars... Apologies
[Edited by John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) Tiddler (Dogging Expert) 26th February 2013 14:56]
Last edited by John Mc on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:37 am

John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:Clearly you are too fuckin lazy to haul your fat arse out of bed and plan your day better.

Anything is possible, you just need to plan it and organise yourself.

Anyway, you don't have 3 kids at school... You need to grow a pair of bollocks and tell whosever kids they are that they need to sort their own kids out.


:shock: Wasn't talking about me :finger:, was showing you where diesel cars often get bunged up with soot on typical short 'school run' type journeys where they never get the engine warmed up. :bang:

I think you need to go on some anger management :blah: courses :lol:

Id also like to see you get 45mpg out of an articulated lorry that often does around 6-8mpg :rofl:

:wave: :woohoo: :wave:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby John Mc » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:27 pm

Megaman wrote:
John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:Clearly you are too fuckin lazy to haul your fat arse out of bed and plan your day better.

Anything is possible, you just need to plan it and organise yourself.

Anyway, you don't have 3 kids at school... You need to grow a pair of bollocks and tell whosever kids they are that they need to sort their own kids out.


:shock: Wasn't talking about me :finger:, was showing you where diesel cars often get bunged up with soot on typical short 'school run' type journeys where they never get the engine warmed up. :bang:

I think you need to go on some anger management :blah: courses :lol:

Id also like to see you get 45mpg out of an articulated lorry that often does around 6-8mpg :rofl:

:wave: :woohoo: :wave:


As usual - 0.15% of the information.

Why would you like to see me getting 45mpg out of an articulated lorry? What could you possibly hope to prove by witnessing that? You are without doubt the most useless retarded mong I know, 99.85% shit.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:41 pm

John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:As usual - 0.15% of the information.

Why would you like to see me getting 45mpg out of an articulated lorry? What could you possibly hope to prove by witnessing that? You are without doubt the most useless retarded mong I know, 99.85% shit.


"As for people getting less than 45mpg out of diesels, I'd suggest that you learn how to drive a diesel"

Well you used the term 'diesels' so loosely that it covers trucks, vans, tractors, boats and cars etc. :bow:

I know English wasn't your strong point at school, come to think of it did you have any strong points? :cuckoo:
Other than this one of course:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby John Mc » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:57 pm

Megaman wrote:
John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:As usual - 0.15% of the information.

Why would you like to see me getting 45mpg out of an articulated lorry? What could you possibly hope to prove by witnessing that? You are without doubt the most useless retarded mong I know, 99.85% shit.


"As for people getting less than 45mpg out of diesels, I'd suggest that you learn how to drive a diesel"

Well you used the term 'diesels' so loosely that it covers trucks, vans, tractors, boats and cars etc. :bow:

I know English wasn't your strong point at school, come to think of it did you have any strong points? :cuckoo:
Other than this one of course:
:dickhead:


Read my response to ASPerformance.

Then re-read my point about you being Mr 0.15%.

f*cking mong.
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:11 pm

John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:
Read my response to ASPerformance.

Then re-read my point about you being Mr 0.15%.

f*cking mong.


I did read it then noticed that you had edited your response - :shake:
:nono:
:lol:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby John Mc » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:27 pm

Megaman wrote:
John Mc Tiddler (Dogging Expert) Tiddler (Dogging Expert) wrote:
Read my response to ASPerformance.

Then re-read my point about you being Mr 0.15%.

f*cking mong.


I did read it then noticed that you had edited your response - :shake:
:nono:
:lol:


Funny thing is that when I actually edit it myself, it shows John_Mc edited 1 time etc etc (Screen shot taken, c*nt)

Yet, when YOU edit it, it shows a completely different message and has your forensic fries and burgers all over it....

You portray yourself as an IT expert when we all know the only thing you are actually an expert at is snorting calories.

[Last edited by a fat c*nt eating pies and fries]

:zzz:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby Megaman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:09 pm

Same old Gullible John - actually takes the time to double check if what I said was right :lol:
:loony: :notwor: :notwor: :oops!:
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Re: My second car saga, it's a long one.

Postby hightower » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:33 am

lol :toofunny:
Gracing the drive.....BMW M3 E92 with all the toys!/Integra DC5/ Integra DC2 race car/BMW X5
gone...Impreza RB320 No 112
gone...Impreza WR1 No 84
gone...Civic Type R EP3
gone...Seat Leon Cupra 225
gone...Civic Type R EP3
gone...(shed with weels)
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Posts: 743
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:29 pm
Location: Stirling

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