I found hens teeth!!

[Loco2527]

[quote="Megaman"][quote="Bonovox"]Would we Scots be regarded as foreigners as well with our weird accents and skirt wearing shinnanigans
Or when you say foreign are you talking about the cheese eating surrender monkeys? [/quote]

Well im starting to think these southern jessies that dont know what a snicket is might be foregin [/quote]

hey, just because cornwall has their own flag and wants to be its own country, doesn't mean all us southerners do! I am pretty happy to just speak normal english. no snickets, no cornish pasties, just somewhere in the middle!!

[The Swede]

Imagine a foreigner understanding your dialect whereas you don't understand 3 words of any of the other languages he speaks, even in their official form...

Imagine if we barred foreigners all together

I can. The whole UK economy would collapse !

[John Mc]

Imagine a foreigner understanding your dialect whereas you don't understand 3 words of any of the other languages he speaks, even in their official form...

Imagine if we barred foreigners all together

I can. The whole UK economy would collapse !

The UK budget defecit would be eradicated overnight due to the immigrant spongers moving on, and also crime would disappear... 99.99999% of rape, muder and drug cases are foreigners.

[The Swede]

You'd just wonder who'd actually pay taxes to close the gap in the deficit in that case as 70% of people who actually work in and around London are from the Poland, Germany, Russia, India or Pakistan. Not met a Brit who actually still makes his hands dirty and actually works for a very long time.

Believe me, Britain doesn't have a fraction of the unemployed immigrants Belgium, Germany or France have and those who're there don't get as much money either. These countries do still have manufacturing though and their economies are recovering very well. Issue is that for that, you need people who actually work when they're in the office instead of putting a big mouth up...

[John Mc]

You'd just wonder who'd actually pay taxes to close the gap in the deficit in that case as 70% of people who actually work in and around London are from the Poland, Germany, Russia, India or Pakistan. Not met a Brit who actually still makes his hands dirty and actually works for a very long time.

Believe me, Britain doesn't have a fraction of the unemployed immigrants Belgium, Germany or France have and those who're there don't get as much money either. These countries do still have manufacturing though and their economies are recovering very well. Issue is that for that, you need people who actually work when they're in the office instead of putting a big mouth up...

So you think basing your stats on "the people you have met" is accurate Swede?

Britain has developed into a service economy hence "nobody getting their hands dirty"... as everything was outsourced to Europe and far East due to lower labour costs in those areas.

[Loco2527]

[quote]
Britain has developed into a service economy hence "nobody getting their hands dirty"... as everything was outsourced to Europe and far East due to lower labour costs in those areas.
[/quote]


Quite right, you could argue that the only real export industry left in the UK is finance[/code]

[The Swede]

So you think basing your stats on "the people you have met" is accurate Swede?

Britain has developed into a service economy hence "nobody getting their hands dirty"... as everything was outsourced to Europe and far East due to lower labour costs in those areas.

Given you can make stats say anything, I'd rather stick to my own judgement and the fact that if your sample is large enough, its characteristics will be the same as those of the population.

And since I still need to meet the first competent British builder, plumber, mechanic or electrician since I moved there in 97... maybe my statistics are not as far off as you'd want them to be.
In the end, the UK economy is in as much sh1t as the Greek one. Probably a reason for that.

Of course, when you talk about the Greeks, you'll blame the fact they're lazy and shoddy workers, you are very different of course...

[John Mc]

So you think basing your stats on "the people you have met" is accurate Swede?

Britain has developed into a service economy hence "nobody getting their hands dirty"... as everything was outsourced to Europe and far East due to lower labour costs in those areas.

Given you can make stats say anything, I'd rather stick to my own judgement and the fact that if your sample is large enough, its characteristics will be the same as those of the population.

And since I still need to meet the first competent British builder, plumber, mechanic or electrician since I moved there in 97... maybe my statistics are not as far off as you'd want them to be.
In the end, the UK economy is in as much sh1t as the Greek one. Probably a reason for that.

Of course, when you talk about the Greeks, you'll blame the fact they're lazy and shoddy workers, you are very different of course...

The UK economy is nowhere near that of the Greek economy, in fact it is one of the healthiest in the EU area. This government has talked it down but the fact is that our net debt is only about 65% GDP. I'm not having the debate about Governments with a non-dom though as you don't understand politics in this country, no offence.

I happen to work in the construction industry, I've managed up to £2Bn projects in London and currently managing £500m PFI schools projects in Yorkshire. Most of the subbys are foreign teams and the quality of their work is SHIT. I have lost count of the amount of times I have to tell the retarded twats to rip their work down and do it properly as they don't know how to construct properly. It is not that they are lazy, because they work VERY hard... it is just that they are thick as f*ck, don't speak the language and as a result don't understand what they are supposed to be doing.

When you talk about sample sizes. Have you any idea how many people are employed in the UK construction industry Swede? Given there are about 7.5million working in the UK construction, I'd say you haven't sampled even 0.00001% of the construction industry.

[Bonovox]

[The Swede]

The UK economy is nowhere near that of the Greek economy, in fact it is one of the healthiest in the EU area. This government has talked it down but the fact is that our net debt is only about 65% GDP. I'm not having the debate about Governments with a non-dom though as you don't understand politics in this country, no offence.

I happen to work in the construction industry, I've managed up to £2Bn projects in London and currently managing £500m PFI schools projects in Yorkshire. Most of the subbys are foreign teams and the quality of their work is SHIT. I have lost count of the amount of times I have to tell the retarded twats to rip their work down and do it properly as they don't know how to construct properly. It is not that they are lazy, because they work VERY hard... it is just that they are thick as f*ck, don't speak the language and as a result don't understand what they are supposed to be doing.

When you talk about sample sizes. Have you any idea how many people are employed in the UK construction industry Swede? Given there are about 7.5million working in the UK construction, I'd say you haven't sampled even 0.00001% of the construction industry.

Let me get this right. You're running a 2Bn GBP project and are hanging around here? A smart businessman makes at least 10% profit on his business so you should be on the Veyron Owners Club forum, no?

I am happy we agree though. As you said, most people in the building industry are non Brits. Which proves my point that Brits are not willing to work.

As for quality, you're right. I've sampled 6 houses in the UK, all of which were supposed to be "expensive places" and every single one of them was built in a sh1t way.

As usual, you're blaming this on the foreign subcontractors. I generally tend to say quality comes down from management... 'nough said.
Then again, English are good at blaming others always, I have noticed. They don't get along with the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, the French, the Germans... and you know what ? It's always the fault of the others !

When I see how you guys think when you're in a sh1t hole like now, then it reminds me of 1933. Some were also blaming others for their own downfall then...

[John Mc]

The UK economy is nowhere near that of the Greek economy, in fact it is one of the healthiest in the EU area. This government has talked it down but the fact is that our net debt is only about 65% GDP. I'm not having the debate about Governments with a non-dom though as you don't understand politics in this country, no offence.

I happen to work in the construction industry, I've managed up to £2Bn projects in London and currently managing £500m PFI schools projects in Yorkshire. Most of the subbys are foreign teams and the quality of their work is SHIT. I have lost count of the amount of times I have to tell the retarded twats to rip their work down and do it properly as they don't know how to construct properly. It is not that they are lazy, because they work VERY hard... it is just that they are thick as f*ck, don't speak the language and as a result don't understand what they are supposed to be doing.

When you talk about sample sizes. Have you any idea how many people are employed in the UK construction industry Swede? Given there are about 7.5million working in the UK construction, I'd say you haven't sampled even 0.00001% of the construction industry.

Let me get this right. You're running a 2Bn GBP project and are hanging around here? A smart businessman makes at least 10% profit on his business so you should be on the Veyron Owners Club forum, no?

I am happy we agree though. As you said, most people in the building industry are non Brits. Which proves my point that Brits are not willing to work.

As for quality, you're right. I've sampled 6 houses in the UK, all of which were supposed to be "expensive places" and every single one of them was built in a sh1t way.

As usual, you're blaming this on the foreign subcontractors. I generally tend to say quality comes down from management... 'nough said.
Then again, English are good at blaming others always, I have noticed. They don't get along with the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, the French, the Germans... and you know what ? It's always the fault of the others !

When I see how you guys think when you're in a sh1t hole like now, then it reminds me of 1933. Some were also blaming others for their own downfall then...

On the contrary Swede, I work on the client side. And we definately DON'T agree. I don't know anyone who earns 10% from a £2Bn deal on public funded projects, again, your lack of knowledge astounds me.

As you have proved you obviously don't understand - Quality management comes from the Contractors Management as they are the ones who own construction risk.

All i can do (Client PM) is ensure that the contractors do as they say they will. However, because subbies are hammered on price by main contractors, they end up HAVING to use foreign subbies as they work for F*ck all (cheap) and the reason they do this is because they are desparate for work.

NONE of them are trained in UK construction methods and they "Wing it" 99.9999% of the time. IF main contractors put quality first, they would go for UK consturction workers because their quality is MUCH higher, mainly because they speak the language and UNDERSTAND what you tell them to do and they do it right FIRST time, not the 10th (I'm not exaggerating) because they THOUGHT they understood what they were told...

[Megaman]

I think you two are both in the wrong jobs, with the amount of debating going on around here you should both be MP's running the country

Must admit you are onto something with the language barrier, Im in the IT industry and all sorts has been outsourced to india. Problem I find is even though some people you talk to are very clued up about their job, the language barrier nearly always makes simple jobs take normally 3 times as long.

[WR1 Bro]

I think you two are both in the wrong jobs, with the amount of debating going on around here you should both be MP's running the country

Must admit you are onto something with the language barrier, Im in the IT industry and all sorts has been outsourced to india. Problem I find is even though some people you talk to are very clued up about their job, the language barrier nearly always makes simple jobs take normally 3 times as long.

Oh yes. I fully support this.

[WR 1mposter]

I think you two are both in the wrong jobs, with the amount of debating going on around here you should both be MP's running the country

Must admit you are onto something with the language barrier, Im in the IT industry and all sorts has been outsourced to india. Problem I find is even though some people you talk to are very clued up about their job, the language barrier nearly always makes simple jobs take normally 3 times as long.

Oh yes. I fully support this.

Took nearly a hour for me to understand some clever fcuking indian on how to cure a issue with my internet......A for alpha S for sierra S for sierra H for hotel O for oscar L for lima e for echo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry they may be smart but they can'r speak engwish

[WR 1mposter]

The UK economy is nowhere near that of the Greek economy, in fact it is one of the healthiest in the EU area. This government has talked it down but the fact is that our net debt is only about 65% GDP. I'm not having the debate about Governments with a non-dom though as you don't understand politics in this country, no offence.

I happen to work in the construction industry, I've managed up to £2Bn projects in London and currently managing £500m PFI schools projects in Yorkshire. Most of the subbys are foreign teams and the quality of their work is SHIT. I have lost count of the amount of times I have to tell the retarded twats to rip their work down and do it properly as they don't know how to construct properly. It is not that they are lazy, because they work VERY hard... it is just that they are thick as f*ck, don't speak the language and as a result don't understand what they are supposed to be doing.

When you talk about sample sizes. Have you any idea how many people are employed in the UK construction industry Swede? Given there are about 7.5million working in the UK construction, I'd say you haven't sampled even 0.00001% of the construction industry.

Let me get this right. You're running a 2Bn GBP project and are hanging around here? A smart businessman makes at least 10% profit on his business so you should be on the Veyron Owners Club forum, no?

I am happy we agree though. As you said, most people in the building industry are non Brits. Which proves my point that Brits are not willing to work.

As for quality, you're right. I've sampled 6 houses in the UK, all of which were supposed to be "expensive places" and every single one of them was built in a sh1t way.

As usual, you're blaming this on the foreign subcontractors. I generally tend to say quality comes down from management... 'nough said.
Then again, English are good at blaming others always, I have noticed. They don't get along with the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, the French, the Germans... and you know what ? It's always the fault of the others !

When I see how you guys think when you're in a sh1t hole like now, then it reminds me of 1933. Some were also blaming others for their own downfall then...

On the contrary Swede, I work on the client side. And we definately DON'T agree. I don't know anyone who earns 10% from a £2Bn deal on public funded projects, again, your lack of knowledge astounds me.

As you have proved you obviously don't understand - Quality management comes from the Contractors Management as they are the ones who own construction risk.

All i can do (Client PM) is ensure that the contractors do as they say they will. However, because subbies are hammered on price by main contractors, they end up HAVING to use foreign subbies as they work for F*ck all (cheap) and the reason they do this is because they are desparate for work.

NONE of them are trained in UK construction methods and they "Wing it" 99.9999% of the time. IF main contractors put quality first, they would go for UK consturction workers because their quality is MUCH higher, mainly because they speak the language and UNDERSTAND what you tell them to do and they do it right FIRST time, not the 10th (I'm not exaggerating) because they THOUGHT they understood what they were told...

I have sometimes worked in the constuction industry over the last 26 years and there is nothing worse than jonny foreigner trying to understand simple english, other than some scouse arsehole who cant be understood either .... flmao

[Megaman]

The UK economy is nowhere near that of the Greek economy, in fact it is one of the healthiest in the EU area. This government has talked it down but the fact is that our net debt is only about 65% GDP. I'm not having the debate about Governments with a non-dom though as you don't understand politics in this country, no offence.

I happen to work in the construction industry, I've managed up to £2Bn projects in London and currently managing £500m PFI schools projects in Yorkshire. Most of the subbys are foreign teams and the quality of their work is SHIT. I have lost count of the amount of times I have to tell the retarded twats to rip their work down and do it properly as they don't know how to construct properly. It is not that they are lazy, because they work VERY hard... it is just that they are thick as f*ck, don't speak the language and as a result don't understand what they are supposed to be doing.

When you talk about sample sizes. Have you any idea how many people are employed in the UK construction industry Swede? Given there are about 7.5million working in the UK construction, I'd say you haven't sampled even 0.00001% of the construction industry.

Let me get this right. You're running a 2Bn GBP project and are hanging around here? A smart businessman makes at least 10% profit on his business so you should be on the Veyron Owners Club forum, no?

I am happy we agree though. As you said, most people in the building industry are non Brits. Which proves my point that Brits are not willing to work.

As for quality, you're right. I've sampled 6 houses in the UK, all of which were supposed to be "expensive places" and every single one of them was built in a sh1t way.

As usual, you're blaming this on the foreign subcontractors. I generally tend to say quality comes down from management... 'nough said.
Then again, English are good at blaming others always, I have noticed. They don't get along with the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, the French, the Germans... and you know what ? It's always the fault of the others !

When I see how you guys think when you're in a sh1t hole like now, then it reminds me of 1933. Some were also blaming others for their own downfall then...

On the contrary Swede, I work on the client side. And we definately DON'T agree. I don't know anyone who earns 10% from a £2Bn deal on public funded projects, again, your lack of knowledge astounds me.

As you have proved you obviously don't understand - Quality management comes from the Contractors Management as they are the ones who own construction risk.

All i can do (Client PM) is ensure that the contractors do as they say they will. However, because subbies are hammered on price by main contractors, they end up HAVING to use foreign subbies as they work for F*ck all (cheap) and the reason they do this is because they are desparate for work.

NONE of them are trained in UK construction methods and they "Wing it" 99.9999% of the time. IF main contractors put quality first, they would go for UK consturction workers because their quality is MUCH higher, mainly because they speak the language and UNDERSTAND what you tell them to do and they do it right FIRST time, not the 10th (I'm not exaggerating) because they THOUGHT they understood what they were told...

I have sometimes worked in the constuction industry over the last 26 years and there is nothing worse than jonny foreigner trying to understand simple english, other than some scouse arsehole who cant be understood either .... flmao

Scouser... arent they a breed of dog?

[WR1 Bro]

Class... I see Tiddler has grown a tosh.

[John Mc]

funny fuckers

[WR1 Bro]

funny fuckers

You and Swede can keep flexing your political muscles whilst Mega brings sense to the forum.

[Megaman]

funny fuckers

Im surprised ya managed to type that on your keyboard mate... Last time I saw it, it looked like this:

[John Mc]

funny fuckers

Im surprised ya managed to type that on your keyboard mate... Last time I saw it, it looked like this:

No image mate...

[The Swede]

I think you two are both in the wrong jobs, with the amount of debating going on around here you should both be MP's running the country

Must admit you are onto something with the language barrier, Im in the IT industry and all sorts has been outsourced to india. Problem I find is even though some people you talk to are very clued up about their job, the language barrier nearly always makes simple jobs take normally 3 times as long.

So if the job takes 3 times as long... why do you outsource it abroad?

And why do you use foreign subcontractors? Every Brit, sorry, Englishman, I know complains about foreign workers. If you wouldn't use them, then they wouldn't come to the UK and the problem would not exist.

[Megaman]

I think you two are both in the wrong jobs, with the amount of debating going on around here you should both be MP's running the country

Must admit you are onto something with the language barrier, Im in the IT industry and all sorts has been outsourced to india. Problem I find is even though some people you talk to are very clued up about their job, the language barrier nearly always makes simple jobs take normally 3 times as long.

So if the job takes 3 times as long... why do you outsource it abroad?

And why do you use foreign subcontractors? Every Brit, sorry, Englishman, I know complains about foreign workers. If you wouldn't use them, then they wouldn't come to the UK and the problem would not exist.

I dont outsource anything abroad, its big american companies that take over good british companies who end up outsourcing everything abroad to try and "save money"... In reality though its false economy as things take three times longer to do even though money has been saved by some fat ceo somewhere in the usa...

Just thought id get a dig in about the yanks since we have covered russians, poles, french, scousers, welsh, scottish, southerners and of course swede who is one on his own

[WR 1mposter]

Class... I see Tiddler has grown a tosh.

Now that made me laugh !

but not as much as this

[Bonovox]

[WR1 Bro]

I think you two are both in the wrong jobs, with the amount of debating going on around here you should both be MP's running the country

Must admit you are onto something with the language barrier, Im in the IT industry and all sorts has been outsourced to india. Problem I find is even though some people you talk to are very clued up about their job, the language barrier nearly always makes simple jobs take normally 3 times as long.

So if the job takes 3 times as long... why do you outsource it abroad?

And why do you use foreign subcontractors? Every Brit, sorry, Englishman, I know complains about foreign workers. If you wouldn't use them, then they wouldn't come to the UK and the problem would not exist.

I dont outsource anything abroad, its big american companies that take over good british companies who end up outsourcing everything abroad to try and "save money"... In reality though its false economy as things take three times longer to do even though money has been saved by some fat ceo somewhere in the usa...

Just thought id get a dig in about the yanks since we have covered russians, poles, french, scousers, welsh, scottish, southerners and of course swede who is one on his own

I'll tell you why companies outsource.... its because Management Consultants, like Sandy, see figures on paper without any shop floor experience. On paper it looks great to outsource abroad, in reality it is a disaster that costs, as Megaman suggests, three times as much in the short term and even more in the long term. When companies try and back track they find they have signed into something that they can't revert back from because they have subsequently lost their home grown skill sets and then they need home grown contractors.... BRING IT ON. LOL. I've seen it happen so many times and typically the major losers are the loyal permanent members of staff that are pushed out the door due to what started as a cost cutting exercise. Well done Sandy, you are to blame with your text book knowledge and zero work experience. Fire fire fire, invoice for Management Consultancy services and then walk away.

[John Mc]

I think you two are both in the wrong jobs, with the amount of debating going on around here you should both be MP's running the country

Must admit you are onto something with the language barrier, Im in the IT industry and all sorts has been outsourced to india. Problem I find is even though some people you talk to are very clued up about their job, the language barrier nearly always makes simple jobs take normally 3 times as long.

So if the job takes 3 times as long... why do you outsource it abroad?

And why do you use foreign subcontractors? Every Brit, sorry, Englishman, I know complains about foreign workers. If you wouldn't use them, then they wouldn't come to the UK and the problem would not exist.

Because "Mr Businessman" - The decent (better quality, and more expensive) British workers are going to places like Switzerland and Germany where you get quality as the buisness driver... This has happened to my mates building firm as he can't compete against the low cost, low quality foreign teams that come here and f*ck this country up with their shite quality work. Why do you think there are so many skilled British ex-pats out in Saudi and middle east... showing the retarded f*cks how to build.

As Bro says, there are too many people with ££££ signs in front of their eyes and no real experience or knowledge of what it is they are actually doing business in. Every meeting is a session of "w*nk words" to see who can spout the biggest amount of bullshit. These "business people" are nothing but greedy w*nkers who don't want to provide a service for anything other than their bank accounts.

Weather is better today.

[The Swede]

So if the job takes 3 times as long... why do you outsource it abroad?

And why do you use foreign subcontractors? Every Brit, sorry, Englishman, I know complains about foreign workers. If you wouldn't use them, then they wouldn't come to the UK and the problem would not exist.

I dont outsource anything abroad, its big american companies that take over good british companies who end up outsourcing everything abroad to try and "save money"... In reality though its false economy as things take three times longer to do even though money has been saved by some fat ceo somewhere in the usa...

Just thought id get a dig in about the yanks since we have covered russians, poles, french, scousers, welsh, scottish, southerners and of course swede who is one on his own

Hmmm...

Expert at not answerring the question. Why do Brits use foreign subcontractors? Why is your cleaning lady Polish or Slovakian, why is your builder Hungarian, why do you all get your booz at the off-licence that is run by a Syrian or Kosovaran and do you all keep going on about going for a curry when you go out for a meal ?

[The Swede]

I'll tell you why companies outsource.... its because Management Consultants, like Sandy, see figures on paper without any shop floor experience. On paper it looks great to outsource abroad, in reality it is a disaster that costs, as Megaman suggests, three times as much in the short term and even more in the long term. When companies try and back track they find they have signed into something that they can't revert back from because use they have subsequently lost their home grown skill sets and then they need home grown contractors.... BRING IT ON. LOL. I've seen it happen so many times and typically the major losers are the loyal permanent members of staff that are pushed out the door due to what started as a cost cutting exercise. Well done Sandy, you are to blame with your text book knowledge and zero work experience. Fire fire fire, invoice for Management Consultancy services and then walk away.

You're an outsourcer yourself, aren't you, and doing well in the process. So why are you complaining? When did you last work on a shop floor?

Actually, in your case, when did you last work? Full stop !

So, taking your logic, if the numbers are so bad on paper, why are they so bad?
Answer: Because the way people work is sh1t and the amount of work they do is nil.

So far, I've only seen (and recommended) to close factories on one ground : because the workers are lazy and incompentent and spend more time in union meetings than on the shop floor.

... interesting... I just figured out how to describe the UK in one sentence.

[The Swede]

Because "Mr Businessman" - The decent (better quality, and more expensive) British workers are going to places like Switzerland and Germany where you get quality as the buisness driver... This has happened to my mates building firm as he can't compete against the low cost, low quality foreign teams that come here and f*ck this country up with their shite quality work. Why do you think there are so many skilled British ex-pats out in Saudi and middle east... showing the retarded f*cks how to build.

As Bro says, there are too many people with ££££ signs in front of their eyes and no real experience or knowledge of what it is they are actually doing business in. Every meeting is a session of "w*nk words" to see who can spout the biggest amount of bullshit. These "business people" are nothing but greedy w*nkers who don't want to provide a service for anything other than their bank accounts.

Weather is better today.

Seems you do have one quality: Complain, complain, complain

And of course always blaming the others for the problem... which does remind me of another period in history, just a different nation...

That being said, you can complain until the cows come home. Money still rules and you can do jack sh1t about it.

So if you want your country to get out of the sh1t, stop complaining and stop farting around on this forum. Get to work!